ST. GEORGE – The aftermath of the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge occupation in Oregon and death of Arizona rancher Robert “LaVoy” Finicum was a topic of discussion at a public forum Thursday night titled “The Feds versus the Ranchers.”
“My husband’s voice was silenced,” said Jeannette Finicum, widow of LaVoy Finicum who was killed in connection with the occupation in Oregon, “but ours are not, and we’re going to keep talking.”
Jeanette Finicum, of Cane Beds, Arizona, and Kanab resident Shawna Cox, a mother of 13 and longtime friend of the Bundy family, participated in the discussion forum hosted by Dixie Republican Forum in St. George. Representatives of federal agencies like the Bureau of Land Management were not asked to attend the forum.
Read more: The 2014 standoff between the Bundys and Bureau of Land Management here
Cox and Jeanette Finicum shared their experiences surrounding the 2014 standoff at the Bundy Ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada, between the Bundys, their supporters and the BLM, as well as the early 2016 wildlife refuge occupation in Oregon with the attendant death of LaVoy Finicum.
Cox was directly involved in the standoff and occupation and was present when LaVoy Finicum was shot by the FBI and Oregon State Police. She called it “a kill stop.”
Jeanette Finicum’s recollections primarily involved watching her husband as he got involved with the Bundys and then the refuge occupation.
She recalled the last time she saw her husband alive and become emotional as she recounted the night she and her family learned he had been killed.
LaVoy Finicum originally went to Oregon to support the Hammond family, Jeannette Finicum said. He and others, like brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy, felt the Hammonds were being abused by the federal government.
He also went there to teach the people of Harney County, Oregon, and the surrounding counties about the Constitution, she said, and the overreach of the federal government.
Like the Bundys, LaVoy Finicum believed that the federal government has overstepped its bounds in relation to public lands management. The U.S. Constitution does not allow the government to own public lands that should otherwise be in the ownership and control of the states, they said.
Read more: Protest in Oregon highlights ongoing issues over public lands management
“We are members of the and citizens of the United States. We are all citizens of the same United States,” Jeanette Finicum said when people asked why her husband was in Oregon. “So we should be concerned with what’s happening in Oregon. We should be concerned with what’s happening in our neighborhoods.”
Cox said she was restricted in what she could say due to being one of the defendants involved in court proceedings starting in September.
“There’s a lot of stuff that will be going into court,” she said.
Cox was part of the group arrested by the FBI and Oregon State Police in connection with the wildlife refuge occupation. The group includes brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy who are currently incarcerated.
Members of the group were each charged with conspiracy to impede federal officers in their official duties. The Bundys, along with their father Cliven Bundy – who was arrested when he flew to Oregon – have also been charged with offenses related to the 2014 standoff in Nevada.
Read more: FBI arrests Cliven Bundy in Portland
Cox was released soon after her arrest and has opted to serve as her own lawyer. She said she has no trust in any defense attorney appointed by a federal court she also doesn’t trust.
Cox’s lack of trust in the federal court and the government that employs it, along with the agencies involved in LaVoy Finicum’s death, is shared by Jeanette Finicum.
“I have no faith or trust in the federal government or the FBI or Oregon State Police,” Jeanette Finicum said, adding she also has no faith or trust in the Harney County Sheriff or the federal judge overseeing the case.
Jeanette Finicum said there are still many questions to be asked and many questions left unanswered related to incidents that played out in Oregon and her husband’s death. She has little faith that the answers she is looking for will be supplied in court. To that end, she said, she is in the process of starting a lawsuit and independent investigation.
Read more: FBI releases video of Arizona rancher’s death
“I will have my own independent investigation done because that’s the only way to believe the evidence coming my way,” Jeanette Finicum said.
Part of that investigation will involve requesting evidence from the federal government via Freedom of Information filings.
Throughout the discussion forum Thursday evening, Cox made reference to her belief that God’s hand was at work during the 2014 standoff, as well as in incidents related to the refuge occupation and the events that followed. She has described some of these instances as miracles.
Read more: Bundy tells of spiritual direction in BLM standoff
Cox counted her being released from jail and recently being able to remove a tracking ankle bracelet and being released from house arrest as a part of those miracles. This also includes help Cox said she is receiving from others as she prepares to defend herself in court.
“We’re making great strides,” she said.
While Cox prepares for a court battle, Jeanette Finicum and at least one of her daughters will be busy caring for a herd of around 150 head of cattle.
Jeanette said she has had to learn to become a “cowboy” along with her 18-year-old daughter since LaVoy Finicum’s death. However, they have not been left alone in this endeavor.
“Some things are challenging, but we’ve had a lot of rancher friends come and show us what to do and how to do it,” she said, adding that others have also donated hay for the cattle.
Jeanette Finicum’s father-in-law has also provided a parcel of land on private property where the cattle can be kept. She and her daughter have been fixing up the land with fencing, water lines and other infrastructure along the way, she said.
Prior to going to Oregon, LaVoy Finicum told the BLM he wouldn’t renew his grazing contract and would pay his fees to the county government as Cliven Bundy has done in 1993.
Read more: Arizona rancher follows in Bundy’s footsteps – Includes video interview with LaVoy Finicum from October 2015.
Whatever communication is being had between the Finicums and BLM now is taking place through lawyers, Jeanette Finicum said. She hasn’t spoken with anyone from the agency herself.
As the forum drew to a close, one of the attendees asked if Jeanette Finicum lived in fear of any reprisal from the federal government. While she said she believes her family and the Bundys are under surveillance, it won’t change what they do or say.
“We’re just going to go on living and we’re going to go on speaking,” she said.
Email: [email protected]
Twitter: @MoriKessler
Copyright St. George News, SaintGeorgeUtah.com LLC, 2016, all rights reserved.
“has opted to serve as her own lawyer” I’m sure that’s going to work out well for her. It must have been quite a gathering–two idiots speaking to an entire audience of idiots.
An American soldier who dies overseas fighting for our country is a patriot and a hero. An American who risks his or her life as a law enforcement officer guarding the public safety each day is a hero and a patriot. Any American man or woman who works for a living, pays taxes and supports the common good of our nation is a patriot and a hero. With that in mind, consider these domestic terrorists. The parasites in this takeover never served our nation and have no jobs. That’s why they can hangout for weeks on end at a takeover. They are like the vermin that hangs out using a garbage can as a food supply. And Lavoy was a coward who couldn’t bother being inconvenienced by jail even if it meant getting released to his family afterward. And now when this cockroach’s wife loses the ranch because there is no husband to help her run it, the toy soldiers who like to pretend they are tough guys by harassing the wives and kids of BLM employees can blame the “goobermint” for stealing the another ranch. Show me a militia “patriot” and I will show you a failed man and a loser.
Says Mark McNARC McConnel who ratted them out to the FBI. How does it feel to be a traitor to the constitution? How does it feel to slam VETERANS who earned their pensions so it is none of you business how they spend their time? Go back to hiding under your rock, your day is coming when you will gace god and you will not be going to heaven!
Be careful Mary in casting people to heaven or hell. That is God’s judgment and no one not even Jesus knows who is going to heaven or hell. That’s what you shall not judge means.
By all means judge the character of a man but never ever judge and cast them out of heaven. That’s a no no.
Exactly which ones were veterans Mary? Bet ya can’t name one who are veterans……I will be waiting but I know you won’t respond
You have an opinion. You also have a navel. They are both important to you but meaningless to the remainder of the world.
Your lifetime of eating at the public trough of government employment qualifies you for nothing. Those of us who work in the private sector have the only opinions that matter. Go back to sleep old man; no one cares about your ramblings.
Amen to that Chris. !
Go lick ….dumb’s rear end and leave thinking to the adults.
Mesaman your opinion is meaningless to the world as well. …!
Ed. ellipsis.
Ha ha I got edited. !
If I was a cop or federal agent and perp puts his hand in pocket,
I would shoot to kill, period.
these self proclaimed patriots need to get over it.
Did I miss something?? Many that were arrested in “the Oregon standoff” have already plead guilty. Lavoy’s suicide by cop is hardly a noble cause. Why does the Bundy/Finicum lunacy still have a platform anywhere? Absolutely nothing to gain here folks. Stop giving ranchers a bad name!
Your a … cant you wait till a weapon is pulled before you shoot no gun was pulled on the cops their to defend their lives not take someones live for no reason no one was getting fired upon except La Voy.
Ed. ellipsis.
No surprise that no opposing voices were allowed, as this was a propaganda session in which every word was either a flagrant lie or willful ignorance.
For the complete story of the Bundy Boys takeover of Malheur and its cultural, political and historical context, including a day-by-day timeline, a second-by-second timeline of the shooting, and a spreadsheet of all federal indictments, Google: “Range War Redux – Bundy Boys In Oregon”.
For the philosophical (and financial) sources of the new Range Wars and associated movements, Google: “The New Anti-Federalists: The Wellspring of the Bundy Sagebrush Insurrection”.
I have read both of your articles cited. They are the best things I have read about the Bundys and their ilk. Keep up the excellent work, Robert.
It was a justified shooting ! end of story
Then EVERY black shooting was just as justified if not MORE SO because they were resisting arrest! FBI fired on Lavoy as soon as he stepped from the truck the cowards!
Finicum was fired on 12 seconds after leaving truck while reaching for his weapon. Mary, why do you hate America and its brave policemen?
The prosecution in Oregon has just released its case along with a list of 647 pieces of evidence against the Bundy thugs, including Shawna Cox. These include a lot of firearms, ammunition, their own videotaped and recorded blatherings that indict them quite clearly as not just “cowboys camping.” And much much more. With several of the participants already pleading guilty, there’s little question about the purpose of this armed invasion far from Utah/Nevada. The only “spiritual” guidance operating here was the voice in Ammon’s head that told him to go to Oregon and led him to believe he was a new prophet. The voice is now saying, “Ammon, we were just prankin’ ya.”
Ryan, of course, has been busy submitting superfluous motions to the court based on Sov Citizen nonsense from all over the place, including the most recent in which he states he’s “an idiot” and not subject to the court proceedings, demanding $100 million to participate. He’ll be lucky not to be thrown out of the courtroom within the first hour of the trial and everyone in Oregon expects Shawna Cox to be gagged about the same time. She’s already sued for $666,666,666,666.66. Loons.
Oregon Public Broadcasting and Oregonlive (online Oregonian) are great sources for ongoing information.
Followers of Moroni living on land stolen from ten thousand year old civilization with assistance from the Federal Government are Morons
The prosecution has disclosed its mountain of evidence it will use to prosecute these domestic terrorists. In the exhibit list (item #33) is Shawna Cox’s thumb drive containing private federal employee information and photographs. How did she get this private information, and what was she planning on using it for?
Here’s the (very worrisome) list of evidence the government is using. There’s was a whole lot of guns and ammunition brought to this ‘peaceful sit-in’:
http://res.cloudinary.com/bdy4ger4/image/upload/v1469846207/Government_trial_memorandum_gzvg85.pdf?t=236130
Private info? Or info I can get by looking at any federal employee directory. Yes I checked it. None of it is private, all of it is publicly available to anyone as it should be because the government works for the CITIZENS.
Amazing how easy folks condemn a man, unarmed, to death because he stood up for rights. Photos and videos showing how peaceful a protest this was means nothing to the people who believe in the spoon-fed propaganda of the government-controlled media. Of course if you have never lived or even visited a cattle ranch, you can say anything without knowing a thing.
Having been to Burns, Harney County, Oregon and hearing what the people there have to say, my opinions are contrary to the rhetoric being used to demonize these good men and women.
Here is a line to a blog post that includes references and citations proving the case AGAINST the federal government. Of course it is much easier to ignore facts when it is contrary to your agenda.
http://fixamerica-fredmars.blogspot.com/2016/02/blood-lust-for-soil-and-earth.html
” a man, unarmed”?? I don’t know what man you refer to, but Lavoy Finicum was certainly armed at the time of his death and throughout the entire Malheur ordeal. Get a clue Fred, and stop being a sucker for crackpot websites.
Chris. .those websites exist because of people like Fred
Why don’t you elaborate about ‘people like Fred’? What people? Those willing to stand up against government overreach?
I was there, so it’s not opinion or propaganda. The vile expletives from the majority of posts that I read here only proves that you know nothing and are just regurgitating the hate for these hard working ranchers and their families.
LaVoy was NOT armed. Were their weapons in the vehicle? Yes, in the bed of the pickup truck. Did you really watch the video of his execution or are you repeating the lies of the FBI? Did you ever watch the videos that LaVoy made? Can you show where he proposed violence?
Here in Oregon and throughout the west, those who work on farms and ranches carry arms. It is the norm, not the exception. I realize that city dwellers have a hared time grasping the fact that so many people carry arms with them. It is a necessity in many places, but nonetheless, it is a RIGHT to do so.
The only ones who used arms in any intimidating manner were the FBI and the hired goons that harassed the residents of Harney County. I was there and spoke with the people. I spoke to ranchers and people who lived and worked in the city (Burns) and it was their words that I write and speak about.
The ‘federal employees’ were NOT intimidated by the protesters, they were ORDERED not to return to the refuge by Judge Steve Grasty and the FBI, and under threats and retaliation. The local school was closed because the FBI took over the school as a ‘staging area’ with armed agents and hired thugs who roamed the city following people and threatening them if they showed any support or sympathy for the Hammond family. You do remember the Hammonds eight? They were the two men who were falsely accused and convicted of ‘terrorist arson’ because they used a prescribed back burn to save the town of Frenchglen from the fires started by BLM.
I just don’t understand how anyone who calls themselves American can believe that these good men and women are criminals. Just reading through so many of these comments is sickening to a patriotic American, one who believes in freedom and rights.
And then we have the lies about the ‘annotated Mormon’ pocket Constitution that all of the people carried. Those pocket Constitutions were obtained through Congress and the same one’s can be purchased on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Constitution-Text-Bicentennial-Commission/dp/0880801441/ref=as_sl_pc_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=fixame-20&linkCode=w00&linkId=1f561835274110beca80c132948a4f5c&creativeASIN=0880801441
Finally, let’s look at the difference between rights and permits. Robert LaVoy Finicum and Cliven Bundy, and several other ranchers all had grazing rights, which they purchased when they bought the land. These ‘grazing rights’ pre-dated the creation of the BLM. Grazing permits were issued to ranchers who used public lands (public as in belonging to the people of the county or state) and were charged fees for the ‘privilege’ of that land use.
In LaVoy’s case (and with many other ranchers) the BLM used intimidation and threats to get the ranchers to sell their ranches and in some cases, outright sabotage to force them off the lands that they owned for generations. LaVoy’s videos (available on YouTube) clearly shows the systematic attempts by the BLM to make ranching as difficult as possible.
The criminals are the government and not the cowboys. And the criminal who won the Democratic candidacy for President has her bloody hands in all of this as well.
http://fixamerica-fredmars.blogspot.com/2016/07/hillary-gate-iv-or-time-dunce-and.html
So please spare me the insults and rhetoric of circular logic and propaganda. When you can show real evidence to the contrary, I will accept it, but I will NOT buy this demonizing of good, hardworking families, who provide consumers with top quality beef above and beyond what the USDA deems as acceptable.
1) Finicum was armed and reaching for his weapon when killed by state trooper. Proof please if you can show otherwise.
2) You confuse the definition of the phrase “Patriotic American” with seditionist, domestic terrorist and criminal. Get it straight.
3) Private ranch land is not tied to grazing rights. The Taylor grazing act clearly codified grazing permits. You may be in contact with a fringe lawyer and dodgy websites that argue otherwise but you just wrong.
4) Cool it with the cowboy cornpone. Choosing to run cattle on public lands as a livelihood doesn’t magically impart proper values and honest behavior. See Cliven Bundy as a prime example. Despite what you read in corny poems and hear on country radio cowboys, and cowboy pretenders, are about as apt to be dishonest idiots as the general population.
5) We are a nation of laws. Don’t like the law? Get it changed. Can’t get it changed to your liking? Tough beans. Man up and stop pretending criminal behavior is patriotic behavior.
Go study western water rights! Water rights are a property that can be sold and if you own the water rights you have first rights to graze that public land AT THE GOING RATES. Not rates jacked up 200% to drive ranchers off the land. Why did the BLM destroy Bundy’s privately owned water sources? Tore up pipelines, destroyed tanks… this will come out in court and many of us know the information so the government cannot silence him!
And grazing rights can be bought and sold. The BLM cannot change a grazing contract without proof it is needed to preserve the land. NONE of the land in question was over grazed. No rancher is going to over graze because it is his yearly income he loses if he does it. You lack common sense and any form of logic and are regurgitating liberal talking points like facts!
Mary confuses water rights with grazing “rights”. Two separate beasts Mary. Water rights are issued and administered by the individual states and are indeed real property. Grazing permits on federal lands are administered by federal agencies — BLM, USFS, etc and are not property. Grazing fees charged to federal land’s permitees are determined by a formula set by congress and are far below market rates on similar private lands. Some would call that subsidy welfare. For 2016 the federal grazing fee is $2.11/month per animal (calves with mothers graze for free). That’s $25/year per animal.
Mary confuses the “preference” BLM gives for grazing permit to a particular private property (and sometimes state land leases) with a legal property right. These “preferences” can sometimes be transferred to other properties with the approval of the local BLM officer in charge. The courts, however, have consistently held that these are not proper legal property rights.
http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/prog/grazing/grazing_permits.html
The Bundy/Finicums documented their takeover of the Malhuer Bird Refuge with videos and multiple interviews. As of today, ten occupiers have taken plea deals. They have all plead guilty to a felony of conspiracy to impede federal officers from performing their duties. Now, really Fred, we all saw videos of Ammon and LaVoy sitting at the desks used by the people that worked at the Refuge. LaVoy took the media on a tour of the offices where federal workers should have been and told the media that it was going to become a new media center for the new “Harney County Resource Center.” They replaced the signs outside. Ammon declared that they would be there for several years. We’ve seen the interviews. We’ve seen the videos. Did you honestly expect the federal workers to drive to work, be met at the gate by strangers with arms in a facility owned by the federal government, and sit down and try to work? Of course they were impeded. The occupiers videos prove it. It is really quite simple.
As to the arrests at the roadblock there is one fact that cannot be disputed. Everyone who followed the instructions of law enforcement (you can hear them identify themselves on the video) is alive today. The cellphone video and audio and FBI video show it all.
You may have been there, but you know next to nothing about the entire Bundy/Finicum clan. First, Cliven’s father, David Ammon Bundy, purchased the Bundy ranch from the Leavitt family in Bunkerville in 1948, and began running cows on the GoldButte allotment in 1953, many years after the Taylor Grazing Act created the BLM and the system of grazing permits we have today. Lavoy purchased his 3 acre spread in Cane Beds, AZ in 2002, having done no ranching in his adult life before that. Grazing rights do not exist in American jurisprudence, and have never been recognized in either codified law or in the common law. Your ignorance is appalling coming from someone who pretends to understand what is at issue here. Go back to your crackpot sites and leave the comments to those of us who actually know something.
Well, I think this pretty much sums up the current state of affairs.
“Attorney Amy Baggio’s client, Joseph O’Shaughnessy, pleaded guilty to conspiracy charges earlier this week. Baggio has been one of the leaders in defense strategy and some noted her absence in court Wednesday.
“Ms. Baggio has been driving the bus,” Schindler told Brown.
“Don’t tell me your bus has no driver,” Brown said.
“Oh, our bus definitely has no driver,” Schindler replied.
Just then attorney Tiffany Harris, standby counsel for Cox, stood up and addressed the court.
“I motion to bring back Ms. Baggio to drive the bus,” Harris said.
“I think she’d object,” Brown said, amid laughter in the courtroom.”
“The U.S. Constitution does not allow the government to own public lands that should otherwise be in the ownership and control of the states, they said.”
True. But the Constitution also authorizes Congress to make such laws, and authorizes the President to sign them into law.
And how many of these white people care when it’s blacks or gays being shot up by police? Not a single one. Because bible. And Jesus. And whatever other stupid superstition and “prophecy” and BS you can think of. Because Jesus didn’t care that the land was stolen from Native American “heathens”, but you can be damn sure he cares about stopping any government that wants to claim control over the land when White Christian Heterosexual men occupy it.
Morons. Your stupid is blatantly obvious. The only tragedy here is that this idiot reproduced before he died.
Your interpretation of the Constitution leaves much to be desired.
Article I Section 8 Paragraph/Clause 17
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding 10 Miles square) as may be by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-yards and other needful Buildings; – And
Article IV Section 3 Clause 2
The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
Once a Territory is admitted to the union, all property within the boundary of the State belongs to the state, excluding the provisions made in Article I Section 8Terrority Clause 17.
Nowhere is Congress or any ‘agency’ of the federal government give the authority to designate lands within a member State, and a national anything.
You ask how many of these ‘white people care when it’s blacks or gays shot up by police?’ Well, I cannot speak for others, but I care about injustice regardless of who the victims are. I have written and spoken out in defense of the Dann sisters who are Native Americans being mistreated by the BLM/USFWS same as other ranchers here in the west. I make no distinction based on ethnicity or race when people are abused. Bringing this up in this context only demonstrates your own prejudice against ranchers, who happen to be white. I didn’t see anything written about the aforementioned Dann sisters who have been abused by government overreach.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwZjQrmZrZo Like Cliven Bundy, These Sisters Had Land, Cattle, But Not Guns
But of course having guns is a sin in the eyes of the paranoid public who have already accepted the benefits and bondage of the tyranny of government.
A local affiliate of the same unhinged political party that has nominated a carnival barker/demagogue as its presidential candidate has locally hosted a “forum” where the widow of a domestic terrorist and one of his his co-conspirators are holding forth on how they were mistreated. The smell of crazy is overpowering. How did it get this bad?
Bundy circus loons trying to take over bird refuges, LOL. People like the birds lots better than that pack of inbred clowns.
Yeah people like Fred ! LOL !
It is amazing to read how ignorant some of these posts are, but then again we still have people in this country that believe in Obama and will vote for Hillary. ANYONE who does not understand what occurred at the Bundy standoff, the Hammonds ranch or at the Malheur preserve needs to find a copy of the Constitution and educate themselves. These ranchers had been physically threatend and financially blackmailed by this tyrannical government and their corrupt BLM. All the liberals who are the most vocal against our Patriots and Ranchers are people who have never stood for anything in their lives and are nothing more than cowards who will never stand with others in defense of our freedom. GOD BLESS LaVoy Finicum and his family, the Hammonds, Bundys and all of our brave Malheur Patriots! I will stand with them until the end! And so will Donald Trump!!
Julie full of lies
you and the bundies are the furthest thing that could possibly represent a patriot, you are pure white trash welfare scum that only leech
from society, you and your scum do nothing to contribute to society. all you do is complain about the evil government, bla bla
bla.
I consider a real patriot as someone that has served their country through the military and is prepared to making the ultimate sacrifice,
not a bunch of welfare scum terrorists complaining about the left or right of the government, I am only sorry that the feds were unable
to eradicate more of you.
Bundy raised cattle, he provided food for other US citizens. What do you do? Suck off the taxpayer on real welfare? Because cattle ranchers do not use the land for free. They pay every month per head of cattle grazing. That is not welfare, they pay a fair use fee set by congress. Don’t like it to bad, lobby congress to change it. But considering the fact you are either carrying an EBT card or on an even worse form of welfare and work for the government doing nothing that helps the citizens of this country then your opinion means squat!
you forget to mention that Cliven did not pay his fees, and thus, was using the land for free. As a freeloader, disgracing the names of legitimate ranchers, he was, in essence, on welfare. Every comment you have made is not worth “squat.”
Public lands ranchers pay far below market rates. In my book that’s call government assistance. Others will call government assistance welfare. What do you call it Mary?
” I am Manjure Di Vino, Lord of the Livestock! I see no evidence to the contrary, therefore it is so.”
-From the Just the Facts section of the SovCit Court Survival Guide
Oh, for the love of please how is this not yet a meme?!?! XD
White people did a land grab and tried to genocide the Native Americans.